K5CM FMT - August 16, 2010 Results


TX Frequencies
80M 3568495.687 3568474.358
40M 7076551.327 7076523.409

Stations submitting readings on all possible bands(4) - ranked by average error:

Call Section Grid Error in PPX
K9KK OK EM15 1.08E-08
WA1ABI RI FN41jp 1.22E-08
W6IHG VA FM09 1.46E-08
K5BTK MS EM42wl 1.57E-08
K6OQK* LAX DM04ud 1.78E-08
AB4RS VA FM18hw 1.81E-08
AA8K MI EN82sx 3.25E-08
WBLXZ KS EM27pk 3.40E-08
W9ZB IN EM69xp 3.41E-08
W3JW VA FM17tn 3.43E-08
W9TJ IL EM48 3.77E-08
VE2IQ ON FN15nt 3.92E-08
K6BZZ SDG DM13id 4.17E-08
N5DM STX EL29fs 4.64E-08
W0HBK IA EN42 5.89E-08
KMZ KS EM28ix 6.77E-08
K1GGI EMA FN41 7.14E-08
N2GL OR CN85ko 9.58E-08
WA4FJC VA FM08 1.95E-07
K6APW EB CM87uv 2.87E-07
K6HGF LAX DM04 3.93E-07
W0PHD MN EN18oe 1.11E-06
W2FD WPA EN91 4.89E-06

*May be in ground wave/direct range of W6OQI

A look at all readings 10 millihertz or better:

Call Section Grid TX Frequency Measured Freq Error in Hz Error in PPX
      K5CM 80      
W4UK SC EM93an 3568495.687 3568495.69 0.003 8.41E-10
K9KK OK EM15 3568495.687 3568495.684 -0.003 8.41E-10
W3JW VA FM17tn 3568495.687 3568495.696 0.009 2.52E-09
      K5CM 40      
N3FG EPA FM29 7076551.327 7076551.32 -0.007 9.89E-10
      W6OQI 80      
WA1ABI RI FN41jp 3568474.358 3568474.355 -0.003 8.41E-10
      W6OQI 40      
K6OQK LAX DM04ud 7076523.409 7076523.413 0.004 5.65E-10

*May be in ground wave/direct range of W6OQI

It seems most everyone had fun with this format. I know it was interesting for Marvin and I to transmit the FMT. We had to deal with timing and sequencing issues. Although it did not happen this time we were concerned about possible QRM at the last minute causing us both to move to a new frequency within 50 Hz of each other. Despite the lack of a key down period there were still many good readings with several less than 10mHz readings. This was a good real world test.

Thanks to all who participated ! 

Connie, K5CM


N8OB OH EN80 A much different way to measure frequency.  Still lots of fun.
W0HBK IA EN42 Challenging test with the QRN level, however strong signals from both K5CM & W6OQI made measurements possible. Thank you for sponsoring the test!  W0HBK, Cedar Rapids, Iowa
W9ZB IN EM69xp Good idea, Connie, TNX.  I need a different technique for it, though, because I could only get to nearest .1 Hz readings on the slow Morse.  Signals were good from K5CM, weak with fading and Doppler on W6OQI, but usable.
KMZ KS EM28ix Thanks Connie and Marvin for a dynamic FMT.  Marvin's 40 meter sig was about S9 while Connie's was just above the noise.  Connie's 80 meter signal was a good 40 over while Marvin's was about S9 or so.  Lots of QRN both bands, more QRM on 80.  Measuring the two different frequencies by ear was very easy by just manually moving the transfer oscillator for each correct pitch.  This was fun.  Good real world test.
AB4RS VA FM18hw Enjoyable as always. Had S9 noise on both bands, but K5CM was loud and clear, and W6OQI was clear and readable. Used a HP3336C locked to a Trimble Thunderbolt to inject a known reference signal. Tuned RF with a Yaesu FT897d, recorded audio and did post-processing with Spectrum Lab
N2GL OR CN85ko Great fun. GPSDO referenced HP3335A Synthesizer set 600Hz higher than test signals. Looked for beat in SpectrumLab display at 600.02Hz calibrating out sound card error. Hope I did the math correctly this time. Looking forward to the next FMT. Thanks Connie; great fun.
WA1ABI RI FN41jp Good signals, bad Doppler. This format was interesting and challenging. Tnx Connie and Marvin.
WA4FJC VA FM08 Well another challenge.  Using Thunderbolt, HP 3586B and Spectrum lab that went mostly deaf just befor the event.  Ah well it was fun.  Keep up the good work.  73 Gordon
N5DM STX EL29fs Kenwood TS-480S and DigiPan v2.0. QRN S9+25 TSTMS in SE La. Doppler significant on both bands. Thanks to K5CM and W6OQI.
KB3MUN WPA FM19cv Toolchain:  2m 1/4wave to TS-140 to FLdigi.Signals faint, sometimes barely making trace on FLdigi waterfall, could hear that it was CW. As the CW was not decodable, I could not tell which signal was whose, so I reported K5CM as the lower freq in each case.  The 80m QSO I listened to was probably not the FMT QSO--I quit listening at 23:19 EDT but was able to decode something about "raising antenna 10-15 feet" and "inverted L" at about 23:18.Thanks for a fun and challenging FMT format.
K6OQK LAX DM04ud Back in the dark ages before Connie started our regular FMT's, Marv W6OQI, Stu K6YAZ and I used to sit on the phone measuring CW stations on 40 Meters and comparing measurements and techniques, so this is sorta old hat.  I did not have the advantage of using Spectrum Lab this time so I wasn't able to average the transmissions.  We'll see how I do using only my Lissajou pattern technique.  Thanks to Connie and Marv for this FMT format.  This is more of a challange but certainly not without it's rewards and satisfaction.   Burt, K6OQK
K6HGF LAX DM04 This is a hard way to make measurements!  Timing between Connie & Marv was excellent.  Thanks for the FMT.
W2FD WPA EN91 Signals were not very strong from Marvin, W6OQI but strong enough to make a measurement. I now know why the FMT tests are so interesting and enjoyable to me.  If you don't have sophisticated frequency sources and a very stable receiver, you can make the technical measurements and --like playing the lottery, you can hope that the results will turn out great !  The format of this test was interesting and it was apparent that the slower speed CW (W6OQI) was easier to measure. Thanks again Connie and Marvin for your efforts.
WBLXZ KS EM27pk Thanks for the contest. Very interesting, in each case one very strong signal communicating with a very weak one. My habit is to take notes in the evening, and do the calculations in the morning. Often my notes are not as complete as I thought. I hope I got the signals matched with their calls. -Bill
K6APW EB CM87uv Signals good, measurement tough (by my method)!
K7TT WWA CN87wl Good signals on 40M. I listened on 80M but there were no signals readable on 80M whatsoever, just very high noise level.
W4UK SC EM93an Missed the 40 M run. Thanks for the FMT.
K6BZZ SDG DM13id Good signals with some qsb. A little trickier without a key down period. Your timing was spot on. That was fun to watch. Thanks for running the test.
AA8K MI EN82sx Peak signal levels received in dBm:  K5CM 40M -58, K5CM 80M -82, W6OQI 40M -72, W6OQI 80M -92.  Antenna: ground-mounted vertical 20 meters high.  I used only Open HPSDR, Thunderbolt GPSDO, and Spectrum Lab. I offset HPSDR about 500 Hz to make an tone with its BFO, used PowerSDR to make a wave file. Play the wave file back and run Spectrum Lab, note the offset from the HPSDR frequency.
W9TJ IL EM48 Marvin took honors on 7 mhz with 9+10 signals while I dug for Connie.  80 mtrs was the other way around with Connie at 9+30 while I dug for Marvin.  Frequencies were a joke with doppler swinging over 0.5 hz at times and considerable difference between start and ending.  It was fun but frustrating.  Thank you very much for your efforts.   73   Tom
W6IHG VA FM09 Different and lots of fun. OQI signals weak in VA. Using Delta reference method with HP3336 and FT2000 (which has a terrible vfo for drifting). Thanks Connie and Marv. Almost forgot I needed to know whose signal each of the frequencies belonged to. Hopefully I got it right. Jerry, W6IHG
VE2IQ ON FN15nt That was fun - processed each xmsn separately then avgd them. Sidebands no help to eliminate propagation effects. Tnx
K1GGI EMA FN41 Anybody not clued in must have thought you guys were nuts... o, you are. Hope to be within a few tenths this time. Fun for a summer's eve.  Ed, your just tooooo funny hi hi........ but hmmmmm.... maybe your right.... CM
W3JW VA FM17tn Good signals from both stations on both 40 and 80 M. The signals on 40 M were noticeably stronger but all were measurable.  Plenty of atmospherics and Doppler to keep things interesting. For this format the frequency counters could be kept in storage (except for the "very fast" ones---Hi. Spectran and SL provided the signal acquisition and frequency measurement functions respectively here. Tnx to both you and Marvin for a good FMT.
K9KK OK EM15 Fantastic FMT-- Really liked & enjoyed the different format.  On 40M W6OQI strong & K5CM weak.  On 80M just the opposite in central Oklahoma.  Used GPS disciplined generator & SL & HF RCVR. K5CM & W6OQI were synchronized very well.  Thanks guys !!!!
N3FG EPA FM29 Thanks again.  Lots of fun.


K5CM 80 Meter 


Call Section Grid TX Frequency Measured Freq Error in Hz Error in PPX
W4UK SC EM93an 3568495.687 3568495.69 0.003 8.41E-10
K9KK OK EM15 3568495.687 3568495.684 -0.003 8.41E-10
W3JW VA FM17tn 3568495.687 3568495.696 0.009 2.52E-09
K5BTK MS EM42wl 3568495.687 3568495.7 0.013 3.64E-09
VE2IQ ON FN15nt 3568495.687 3568495.646 -0.041 1.15E-08
WA1ABI RI FN41jp 3568495.687 3568495.729 0.042 1.18E-08
W6IHG VA FM09 3568495.687 3568495.729 0.042 1.18E-08
AB4RS VA FM18hw 3568495.687 3568495.73 0.043 1.20E-08
W9TJ IL EM48 3568495.687 3568495.74 0.053 1.49E-08
K6BZZ SDG DM13id 3568495.687 3568495.607 -0.080 2.24E-08
W9ZB IN EM69xp 3568495.687 3568495.6 -0.087 2.44E-08
K6OQK LAX DM04ud 3568495.687 3568495.588 -0.099 2.77E-08
WBLXZ KS EM27pk 3568495.687 3568495.58 -0.107 3.00E-08
AA8K MI EN82sx 3568495.687 3568495.8 0.113 3.17E-08
KMZ KS EM28ix 3568495.687 3568495.5 -0.187 5.24E-08
N5DM STX EL29fs 3568495.687 3568495.5 -0.187 5.24E-08
WA4FJC VA FM08 3568495.687 3568495.49 -0.197 5.52E-08
N2GL OR CN85ko 3568495.687 3568495.433 -0.254 7.12E-08
W0HBK IA EN42 3568495.687 3568496 0.313 8.77E-08
W0PHD MN EN18oe 3568495.687 3568495.24 -0.447 1.25E-07
K1GGI EMA FN41 3568495.687 3568496.14 0.453 1.27E-07
W2FD WPA EN91 3568495.687 3568493.9 -1.787 5.01E-07
K6APW EB CM87uv 3568495.687 3568493.5 -2.187 6.13E-07
K6HGF LAX DM04 3568495.687 3568492.38 -3.307 9.27E-07
KB3MUN WPA FM19cv 3568495.687 3566951




K5CM 40 Meter


Call Section Grid TX Frequency Measured Freq Error in Hz Error in PPX
N3FG EPA FM29 7076551.327 7076551.32 -0.007 9.89E-10
WBLXZ KS EM27pk 7076551.327 7076551.3 -0.027 3.82E-09
K5BTK MS EM42wl 7076551.327 7076551.3 -0.027 3.82E-09
W9TJ IL EM48 7076551.327 7076551.37 0.043 6.08E-09
AB4RS VA FM18hw 7076551.327 7076551.384 0.057 8.05E-09
K9KK OK EM15 7076551.327 7076551.393 0.066 9.33E-09
W9ZB IN EM69xp 7076551.327 7076551.4 0.073 1.03E-08
AA8K MI EN82sx 7076551.327 7076551.4 0.073 1.03E-08
VE2IQ ON FN15nt 7076551.327 7076551.429 0.102 1.44E-08
W0PHD MN EN18oe 7076551.327 7076551.22 -0.107 1.51E-08
W3JW VA FM17tn 7076551.327 7076551.469 0.142 2.01E-08
WA1ABI RI FN41jp 7076551.327 7076551.472 0.145 2.05E-08
W6IHG VA FM09 7076551.327 7076551.475 0.148 2.09E-08
N5DM STX EL29fs 7076551.327 7076551.5 0.173 2.44E-08
K6OQK LAX DM04ud 7076551.327 7076551.092 -0.235 3.32E-08
K7TT WWA CN87wl 7076551.327 7076551.564 0.237 3.35E-08
K6APW EB CM87uv 7076551.327 7076551.6 0.273 3.86E-08
K6BZZ SDG DM13id 7076551.327 7076551.604 0.277 3.91E-08
N2GL OR CN85ko 7076551.327 7076551.05 -0.277 3.91E-08
K1GGI EMA FN41 7076551.327 7076551.71 0.383 5.41E-08
N8OB OH EN80 7076551.327 7076551.981 0.654 9.24E-08
W0HBK IA EN42 7076551.327 7076552 0.673 9.51E-08
W2FD WPA EN91 7076551.327 7076550.3 -1.027 1.45E-07
KMZ KS EM28ix 7076551.327 7076552.5 1.173 1.66E-07
WA4FJC VA FM08 7076551.327 7076553.45 2.123 3.00E-07
K6HGF LAX DM04 7076551.327 7076548.312 -3.015 4.26E-07
KB3MUN WPA FM19cv 7076551.327 7076480




W6OQI 80 Meter  


Call Section Grid TX Frequency Measured Freq Error in Hz Error in PPX
WA1ABI RI FN41jp 3568474.358 3568474.355 -0.003 8.41E-10
K6OQK* LAX DM04ud 3568474.358 3568474.323 -0.035 9.81E-09
AB4RS VA FM18hw 3568474.358 3568474.282 -0.076 2.13E-08
K9KK OK EM15 3568474.358 3568474.275 -0.083 2.33E-08
W6IHG VA FM09 3568474.358 3568474.272 -0.086 2.41E-08
W0HBK IA EN42 3568474.358 3568474.500 0.142 3.98E-08
KMZ KS EM28ix 3568474.358 3568474.500 0.142 3.98E-08
K5BTK MS EM42wl 3568474.358 3568474.500 0.142 3.98E-08
W3JW VA FM17tn 3568474.358 3568474.507 0.149 4.18E-08
AA8K MI EN82sx 3568474.358 3568474.200 -0.158 4.43E-08
WBLXZ KS EM27pk 3568474.358 3568474.180 -0.178 4.99E-08
K6BZZ SDG DM13id 3568474.358 3568474.122 -0.236 6.61E-08
N5DM STX EL29fs 3568474.358 3568474.600 0.242 6.78E-08
W9ZB IN EM69xp 3568474.358 3568474.100 -0.258 7.23E-08
K1GGI EMA FN41 3568474.358 3568474.650 0.292 8.18E-08
W4UK SC EM93an 3568474.358 3568474.020 -0.338 9.47E-08
VE2IQ ON FN15nt 3568474.358 3568473.998 -0.360 1.01E-07
W9TJ IL EM48 3568474.358 3568473.990 -0.368 1.03E-07
W0PHD MN EN18oe 3568474.358 3568473.840 -0.518 1.45E-07
K6HGF LAX DM04 3568474.358 3568474.940 0.582 1.63E-07
N2GL OR CN85ko 3568474.358 3568473.600 -0.758 2.12E-07
WA4FJC VA FM08 3568474.358 3568475.150 0.792 2.22E-07
K6APW EB CM87uv 3568474.358 3568473.500 -0.858 2.40E-07
W2FD WPA EN91 3568474.358 3568514.100 39.742 1.11E-05
KB3MUN WPA FM19cv 3568474.358

*May be in ground wave/direct range of W6OQI


W6OQI WC40 Meter 


Call Section Grid TX Frequency Measured Freq Error in Hz Error in PPX
K6OQK* LAX DM04ud 7076523.409 7076523.413 0.004 5.65E-10
W6IHG VA FM09 7076523.409 7076523.397 -0.012 1.70E-09
K9KK OK EM15 7076523.409 7076523.341 -0.068 9.61E-09
W0HBK IA EN42 7076523.409 7076523.500 0.091 1.29E-08
KMZ KS EM28ix 7076523.409 7076523.500 0.091 1.29E-08
K5BTK MS EM42wl 7076523.409 7076523.300 -0.109 1.54E-08
WA1ABI RI FN41jp 7076523.409 7076523.298 -0.111 1.57E-08
K7TT WWA CN87wl 7076523.409 7076523.523 0.114 1.61E-08
K1GGI EMA FN41 7076523.409 7076523.570 0.161 2.28E-08
W9TJ IL EM48 7076523.409 7076523.220 -0.189 2.67E-08
W9ZB IN EM69xp 7076523.409 7076523.200 -0.209 2.95E-08
VE2IQ ON FN15nt 7076523.409 7076523.196 -0.213 3.01E-08
AB4RS VA FM18hw 7076523.409 7076523.191 -0.218 3.08E-08
N3FG EPA FM29 7076523.409 7076523.140 -0.269 3.80E-08
K6BZZ SDG DM13id 7076523.409 7076523.132 -0.277 3.91E-08
N5DM STX EL29fs 7076523.409 7076523.700 0.291 4.11E-08
AA8K MI EN82sx 7076523.409 7076523.100 -0.309 4.37E-08
WBLXZ KS EM27pk 7076523.409 7076523.040 -0.369 5.21E-08
K6HGF LAX DM04 7076523.409 7076523.005 -0.404 5.71E-08
N2GL OR CN85ko 7076523.409 7076522.980 -0.429 6.06E-08
W3JW VA FM17tn 7076523.409 7076523.925 0.516 7.29E-08
WA4FJC VA FM08 7076523.409 7076524.850 1.441 2.04E-07
K6APW EB CM87uv 7076523.409 7076521.600 -1.809 2.56E-07
KB3MUN WPA FM19cv 7076523.409 7076530.000 6.591 9.31E-07
N8OB OH EN80 7076523.409 7076551.737 28.328 4.00E-06
W0PHD MN EN18oe 7076523.409 7076552.920 29.511 4.17E-06
W2FD WPA EN91 7076523.409 7076578.400 54.991 7.77E-06

*May be in ground wave/direct range of W6OQI

Audio snippets by WA1ABI

audio/aug 16-2010/k5cm-w6oqi-by-abi-aug16-2010_40m.wav

audio/aug 16-2010/k5cm-w6oqi-by-abi-aug16-2010_80m.wav


Audio snippet by W0PHD

audio/aug 16-2010/k5cm-w6oqi-by-phd Aug16-2010-80m.mp3


Spectrograph of W6OQI / K5CM 40 Meter signals














Transmitting equipment used by K5CM for this FMT:

A HP Z3801 GPS frequency source clocks a HP-3336B. A 10 db transistor amp follows and drives a 12BY7 / pair 6146. Then to the final amplifier, a Dentron 2500 running 350 watts out on 80, 40 meter.  There are no mixers or any device in the chain of amplifiers that might impact the accuracy of the GPS frequency source.  As a reality check,  I periodically log the frequency source against WWV and other GPS referenced sources.  I monitor each transmission with a completely separate receive system to look for any instability or short term drift. The separate system is not locked to the GPS transmitting system, but to another GPS source.

I typically see considerably less than 1 mHz difference at 10 Mhz when comparing  two Z3801's or a Z3801 and a Thunderbolt, over a 10 to10,000 second period. 



80 - Sloping dipole dipole. (favors West, North, East)

 40 - Standard Dipole hanging between two 80 foot towers. (favors East, West)



Current W6OQI FMT transmitting equipment for this FMT:



My Transmitting setup consists of a HP Z3801 clocking a HP 3336B which drives a Johnson Viking I transmitter, the output of which is attenuated by a 6 db attenuator, to then drive an Icom PW-1 amplifier to about 500 watts. The antenna is an inverted Vee which favors north and south from the Los Angeles area.







Note: Because I put the results up quickly, there will be mistakes, so don't hesitate to point them out quickly. 






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